What 'the intransigent' are thinking
Political forces representing Chechen Resistance are not uniform. The reader (even in Russia) is more or less familiar with the position of 'the moderates' represented by former Deputy Prime Minister Akhmed Zakaev or Foreign Minister Ilias Akhmadov. However, the position of ‘the intransigent’ is known a lot less. In the meantime, they have considerable influence in resolving the issues of war and peace in today’s Russian-Chechen conflict.
Andrei Smirnov, freelance Russian journalist, managed to meet and get an interview from Chechen Commander Amir Ramzan, the Commander of one of Chechen Jama'ats operating against Russian forces in the Northern Caucasus.
Question (Q): Ramzan, Jama'ats play a special role in Chechen Resistance; as a rule they are ranked among the radical wing of the force fighting against Russian army in the Caucasus.
Ramzan (R): Jama’at means ‘a community of people’ in Arabic. But in Chechnya by Jama’at they mean militant groups led by an ‘amir’ (a commander) who are fighting in the name of Allah. This is where we are fundamentally different from other Chechens who have taken up arms to defend their Homeland and to fight for Chechnya’s independence. For us the most important thing is not the status of our Republic but the impossibility to put up with the order they are imposing on us, which is alien to Muslims. We believe that Muslims cannot live according to the laws of kafirs’ (infidels’); Muslims have their own laws given to them by the Most High. These laws are called Shari’a. We are fighting to establish the laws of Allah, Shari’a laws in our land.
Q: And is there a difference between the ways Jama'at members and other fighters act in battle conditions?
R: I think there is a difference. Jama’at fighters are more disciplined, they don’t smoke or drink. They keep all the rules imposed by Islam, they sense more keenly the power of Allah and his influence in our everyday life.
Q: Please, tell me what is the current situation inside the Resistance and in Chechnya in general?
R: During this year big changes have taken place in the Resistance, organizational as well as military changes. In the summer last year we started the process of uniting our forces and now you can say this process has virtually been completed. We have successfully overcome our differences and have now created a single structure to manage our troops. As you probably know, Chechnya can be divided into three areas. The area to the north of the Terek River we call the Northern Front, the rest is the Western Front (west of the Argun River) and the Eastern Front (east of the Argun River). Dokku Umarov is in command of the Western Front, and Abu al-Walid is in the command of the Eastern Front. The territory on the border between Chechnya and Ingushetia is under jurisdiction of Commander Khamzat (Ruslan) Gelayev.
Concerning the Jama’ats I would like to say that while we keep receiving financial and material support from our Chief Commander Amir Abu al-Walid, those of us who operate in Western Chechnya and in Ingushetia, are under the command of Amirs Umarov and Gelayev accordingly. This fact alone shows that we are all steadfastly following the order established by the leadership of the Chechen Resistance.
Our Jama’at, along with our brothers from other groups, was efficiently operating in Ingushetia last summer. Every two weeks we would blow up the enemy’s armored vehicles on the mountain roads between the villages of Nesterovskaya and Alkhast, Galashki and Muzhichi, Galashki and Dattikh etc. On May 25 we carried out a successful operation against a Russian Army sub-unit near the village of Arshty at the border with Chechnya. We attacked a large garrison using heavy weapons (large-caliber machine guns and mortars), rockets and antitank guided missiles. Russian casualties were so serious that, criminal prosecution was launched against the commander, as we found out from our source in the 58th Army’s Military Prosecutor’s Office (the army stationed in the Caucasus on the permanent basis – A.S.). He was accused of choosing the incorrect position, which led to «unjustifiably big casualties among personnel».
We also attacked a military base in the Upper Terek District of Chechnya near the village of Goragorsky. This time the enemy suffered casualties of 26 dead. We also carried out a reconnaissance raid into North Ossetia; and pulled up our big forces to the training unit of the 58th Army near the village of Kormagor. I personally watched through binoculars the drill of unarmed servicemen – they were just enrolled in the military school. I repeat, that was only a training raid.
Q: From your words I can assume that you operate not only in Chechnya but all over the North Caucasus.
R: Yes, very much so. Not only we carry out raids to various areas in the Caucasus, but we also form local Jama’ats, militant sabotage groups locally. We are joined by a lot of Kabardinians, Dagestanis, Karachaevans, Ingushetians and even Ossetians (Muslims).
Q: That means that those in Russia who say that you want to create a caliphate in the Caucasus from sea to sea, are right?
R: Yes, it is so. Since they are unwilling to negotiate with us, then we’ll be doing what we can. And there is a lot we can do. Next year the war will seize the entire Caucasus from the Caspian Sea to the Black Sea. Apart from Ossetia and Ingushetia, this year another guerrilla war has already started in two areas of Dagestan bordering Chechnya. I swear by Allah, this is only the beginning. Russian authorities are well aware of this and this is why they are trying to organize formations of the local residents in the area who could resist us effectively. Similar process is taking place in Chechnya. But it will come to absolutely nothing. Having reached a certain level of confrontation inside Chechnya, Russia will sooner or later have to withdraw its troops beyond the Terek River, for instance. In that case we will need no more than two weeks to destroy all the pro-Russian puppet formations.
Q: Ramzan, I would like to go back to the beginning of our conversation. From what you said about Jama'ats, I understand that you are guided solely by the Muslim world, by the Arab countries. But how would you explain the fact that Kadyrov's election as Chechen President wasn’t recognized by any Western, Christian countries, but by it was recognized by Islamic international organizations, who even sent their observers to the elections?
R: Most leaderships of Muslim countries have as much to do with Islamic world as FSB officer, mufti of Ingushetia Albogachiev. Ordinary Muslims are helping us and we are grateful for their support. By the way, I quite suppose that Western governments and their security services also secretly finance us through different Islamic funds and organizations. I am convinced that there are Western powers in whose interests it is to keep Russia permanently involved into such a slow-burning conflict as the war in the Caucasus.
Q: It is a known fact that Jama'at fighters are armed and equipped better than other Chechen groups. This is due to the fact that you have foreign support. Do you ever have any conflicts within the Resistance because of this?
R: We do sometimes. But if a commander cannot look after his men, he is simply a bad commander.
Q: Do the people who help you, ask for anything in return?
R: The most important thing for them is that the money is used for the war, for the jihad, and that those who receive it are true Muslims.
Q: And what does it mean, to be a true Muslim? Many people in Chechnya call you «Wahhabists» and accuse you of all kinds of deadly sins. They say that you forbid rising when somebody of older age enters (there is such a rule in Chechnya – A.S.), that you are for marriage between siblings.
R: Prophet Mohammed forbade the Arabs to marry their sisters, nearest relatives and sisters of the brides of brothers but he allowed to marry cousins. As for the rule to rise before those of older age, we are against practicing it in mosques during prayers, but our spiritual leaders have never forbidden this in everyday life.
We are different from others because we put special emphasis on social and political structures in Muslim countries being in line with the Koran and Sunna of the Prophet. We are ready to explain and to have a debate on our position in an open discussion, but they wouldn’t let to do it. People like Albogachiev, whom I’ve already mentioned, don’t allow us to talk about it during sermons in mosques. Special forbid to discuss social issues instructions in Islam, which is why mullahs only explain the basic rules of the religion – how to fast, how to pray etc. Those who break the rules are punished and labeled as «Wahhanists». For example, a mosque was closed three months ago in the village of Pliyevo, Ingushetia. It was closed for no other reason than mullah breaking the rules, and also because that particular mosque was popular among young people. They put as many as three padlocks on the door.
Q: But apart from other things, you were also accused of kidnapping people during the second war in Chechnya.
R: Yes, it did happen. Those of us who practiced it I would divide into two categories. First are plain bandits who sided with us but are now with Kadyrov (national traitors). They are, for instance, Movladi from Kadyrov’s security service, and also his recently assassinated brother Shani, close aid to Rizvan Kadyrov (head of Security Service). We are grateful to Allah that such individuals left our ranks.
But there were also those among us who vindicated such crimes. They used to say that Russia, the Russians, didn’t stick to the conditions of peace and it meant that they could be kidnapped for ransom. They were saying that although Yeltsin had signed a peace accord with Maskhadov, Russian secret services continued to operate in our land. And we should answer back in the same way. The names of the commanders with such attitude are well known. I won’t mention them.
Q: What do you think about the actions of those who seized Nord-Ost (the Moscow theater events), who organized the blast in Tushino airfield in Moscow, etc.?
R: I support them fully. I don’t believe we should separate Russian Government from the Russian people. It’s Russian soldiers who are fighting in our land, they are the ones who kill our children, our wives, and our elderly. Russian pilots are bombing out cities and villages.
They don’t want to talk to us, they ignore us, so we will give them a dose of their own medicine. We have no warplanes, so we will be blowing ourselves up in Russian cities. I’ve been in Russia recently, checking on the situation at the train stations in Rostov and Mineralnye Vody. These train stations are not guarded well and there are freight trains with oil and chemicals. We shall definitely repeat the Nord-Ost events, but this time it will be something of a technological disaster. I don’t know how to blow up a chemical plant, but if somebody explains it to me, I’ll do it. If Putin thinks that industrial and military facilities are well-protected, he is wrong. They are not.
Q: And what does [President] Maskhadov think about it?
R: We trust Maskhadov fully, he is our President and our Commander-In-Chief. We will fulfill any order he gives us. I don’t think he would be against spreading the war operations across the entire Caucasus and across the entire Russia. And what else can we do if not expand the war zone?
Q: If Maskhadov orders you to stop the war, will you obey such an order from him?
R: I gladly will. Despite my stern statements, I am not the man who enjoys war or violence. I know what I’m capable of, I know that I could earn a living in time of peace, by doing a peaceful job. But this war has been foisted on us, and in this hour of need I must be with my fellow Muslims, with my people. And I am positive that we will prevail. We are now ready for victory, both morally and mentally. If last year there was no unity among us, today we are as united as never before. And we will keep on fighting until our voice is heard by the other side. And we will make them hear it.
Translated by Olga Sharp,
Edited by Kavkaz-Center
News agency Prima
www.prima-news.ru
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